Adventure Passes

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    • #6500
      Jack
      Participant

      Hey all,

      If I’m heading up from the Momyer trailhead and parking area do I need an adventure pass to park?  I have looked all over and it doesn’t look like i do but wanted to confirm.  Thanks in advance.

      Jack

    • #6501
      Jack
      Participant

      You can close this I figured it out. Sorry about that.

    • #6503
      Bo
      Participant

      For anyone else wondering…  in general, if there is a toilet, you need a pass 🙂

      “forest visitors parked in standard amenity recreation fee sites… that provide designated developed parking, picnic tables, toilet facilities, security, interpretive signs and trash receptacles.”

      Info & Map here…

      https://www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/r5/passes-permits/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5208699&width=full

      PS: No pass needed @ Momyer trailhead

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Bo.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Bo.
      • #6506
        Jack
        Participant

        Thank you.  Makes total sense.

      • #6519
        brichardsson
        Participant

        not entirely accurate. they also need to offer a free parking alternative or else they can’t ticket you. this is why there are two lots at the vivian creek th, one that requires a pass and one that is free.

      • #6520
        chris in redlands
        Participant

        That is not true. For example, you must have a pass to park at the trailhead for the South Fork trail. There is nowhere to park there without a pass. If there is pavement and a toilet, you need a pass.

        It’s actually pretty interesting, how it came to that. It used to be that you needed a pass at every trailhead. That hasn’t been the case for almost a decade. There were multiple federal court court cases that led to the current fee area situation. Search for “Mt Lemmon fee court” and you’ll find links to Adams v. USFS and US v. Wallace, which is a start down a pretty interesting rabbit hole.

        If you’re parking at a San Gorgonio wilderness trailhead, you have to have a federal lands fee area pass of some sort displayed at the south fork trail, no matter what, and at the Vivian Creek trail, if you’re parked on the pavement. That’s it, in a nutshell. You don’t need a pass at any other trailhead.

        You do need a hiking permit tho, if you are planning to actually enter the wildness, which is generally any place above 7,200 feet.

      • #6521
        chris in redlands
        Participant

        Now that I dig back into this after a few years, I’m unable to find the source I read that describes how the SBNF has chosen to abide by the court rulings related to the adventure passes! Ha!

        This link to The Western Slopes No Fee Coalition is to their page that links to summaries of the various court rulings (including those specifically in California) where you can read pretty decent summaries and follow lots of other links to news articles and actual legal ruling to read for yourself. (That organization’s mission is to eliminate fees, so their summaries may be biased, but their links to outside sources is good).

        In their summary of the settlement agreement in Fragosa v. USFS, they write that the USFS agreed they “will only charge a fee for use of sites with certain legally required amenities. If the amenities are located at a trailhead then there must be free parking available within 1/2 mile for hikers, horseback riders, and other trail users who do not use the amenities and only access the trail.”

        This is interesting… aside from the little turnout at the gated entry to the old road to poopout hill, I can think of no place anywhere near 1/2 mile of the parking lot for the South Fork trail where one can park for free. Is there one?

        And here I thought I had this all figured out years ago. Ha!

    • #6522
      BrianD
      Participant

      I get the reasoning for improving trailheads and charging a fee. But my experience shows that, counterintuitively perhaps, improvements can make trailhead conditions worse. If there are not bathrooms or pavement, etc. people tend to actually be a little cleaner. Once the improvements go in, people act like there is going to be maid service and things can get disgusting fast–toilet and overflowing garbage and parking lot litter.

      I know in Idaho this was heavily disputed and many argued that it was just a scam. The Government would find a lot at a trailhead or river put-in/take-out, throw some pavement and a blue room on it and start charging to park. Suddenly these places became disgusting and expensive. One spot in particular still rankles. For years there was a take-out on a river for kayakers only, as it was a steep, narrow trail up and too difficult to drag rafts up. So the evenings at this take-out included just “the heads,” reflecting on their day and having a cold one. No trash, no problem. Then the lot got “improved.” No place to chill after the run, and it became a roadside dumping ground. The lot was just a wide dirt turnout that served no purpose other than allowing kayakers up to avoid the two miles of flat water below. There was really no reason for anyone else to stop there–until the government realized a source of money.  The money spent on so called improvements was so minimal and it really wrecked something cool.

    • #6523
      Ed
      Participant

      Interesting and informative posts.  The few parking spaces at the foot of the old Poopout Hill road look a little farther than half a mile from the South Fork parking area to me, and scarcely qualify as a parking area.

      I agree with Brian about the effect of pavement, toilets, picnic tables, and trash cans, though I have often been very happy to use them myself.

      Instead of opposing parking fees, I would have preferred a movement to have them used for things hikers value, such as trail maintenance, and better policing and maintenance for the trailheads.  The parking fees are negligible compared to what we pay for gas, food, equipment, etc.

    • #6572
      brichardsson
      Participant

      there isn’t an alternative at south fork. that’s why you can park there without a pass and not get ticketed. i’ve been doing it literally for years.

      that is also why you must park in the “free” dirt parking lot at the vivian creek th if you don’t have a pass.

      now, in theory i believe in the idea of paying for improvements (and generally financially support organizations that help and protect the wilderness such as leave no trace and the sierra club) but one of the other things that came out from the court cases was the amount of revenue that was basically spent to ticket offenders. that in no way protects/improves the wilderness, or enhances my wilderness experience.

       

      please note: the sgwa trail and ranger folks are mostly awesome. i don’t ever hassle them over this issue, and i always carry a permit when i’m in the wilderness.

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